tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22874063.post115438268369272855..comments2023-10-25T09:18:44.010-04:00Comments on THINK: Artistic License vs. Heresyjonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10724017540080062026noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22874063.post-1171587076669442532007-02-15T19:51:00.000-05:002007-02-15T19:51:00.000-05:00You can find it outlined at:http://thereformedbapt...You can find it outlined at:<BR/>http://thereformedbaptistthinker.blogspot.com/2006/04/justin-taylor-and-sam-storms-vs-chuck.htmlThe Schaubing Blogkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12811910033353720626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22874063.post-1156443326547434582006-08-24T14:15:00.000-04:002006-08-24T14:15:00.000-04:00What did he say???What did he say???Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22874063.post-1156385816662550522006-08-23T22:16:00.000-04:002006-08-23T22:16:00.000-04:00Did you read what Chuck Colson said about praise ...Did you read what Chuck Colson said about praise songs?The Schaubing Blogkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12811910033353720626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22874063.post-1156257322613915032006-08-22T10:35:00.000-04:002006-08-22T10:35:00.000-04:00Ben,I don't have any real beef with praise songs. ...Ben,<BR/>I don't have any real beef with praise songs. I'm sure they have their place in worship. I wish that there were more contemporary songs that had more substance. Getty & Townsend are two writers of 'modern hymns' who I think do a great job mixing good music and powerful lyrics.<BR/>The above debate is not about praise songs in general, but rather a few which are not representative of jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10724017540080062026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22874063.post-1156206887363912672006-08-21T20:34:00.000-04:002006-08-21T20:34:00.000-04:00Jon, here are some posts on my blog about Piper. T...Jon, here are some posts on my blog about Piper. Those should answer your questions:<BR/><BR/>1. <A HREF="http://parablemania.ektopos.com/archives/2005/06/christian_hedon.html" REL="nofollow">Christian Hedonism</A><BR/>2. <A HREF="http://parablemania.ektopos.com/archives/2005/09/why_i_am_no_lon.html" REL="nofollow">Why I am no longer a Piperite</A> by my co-blogger Wink<BR/>3. <A HREF="http://Jeremy Piercehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03441308872350317672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22874063.post-1156174837281121492006-08-21T11:40:00.000-04:002006-08-21T11:40:00.000-04:00Jon,I think Carol makes an interesting point in he...Jon,<BR/><BR/>I think Carol makes an interesting point in her post about CCM v. Hymns. Do you think some of your feelings regarding this issue stem from a root of dislike or distrust of CCM praise songs? We can all agree that many of the newer songs can be simplistic, bubbly and poppy and because of this often could run the risk of clouding vital theology. Hymns do have the advantage of being Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22874063.post-1156138946443572262006-08-21T01:42:00.000-04:002006-08-21T01:42:00.000-04:00I'm the least of these when it comes to these deep...I'm the least of these when it comes to these deep theo-philosophical discourses, but here goes anyway...<BR/><BR/>I don't think it's blasphemy. There is Genesis chapter 1, then Genesis chapter 2. After that, everything else is pretty much all about Jesus, no? The OT points forward to the cross and the NT points back to it. Because I don't fully understand the whole nature of the Triune GodCarolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08808409121932480786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22874063.post-1155832918610037232006-08-17T12:41:00.000-04:002006-08-17T12:41:00.000-04:00Hi Jeremy,I'm not sure that I agree that "its' all...Hi Jeremy,<BR/>I'm not sure that I agree that "its' all about ..." is usually hyperbolic. I do agree that it is often used in a restricted domain of discourse. For instance: "with regard to this issue, it is all about. . .". The issue in the song, however, is what is the heart of worship (what is worship about) and with regards to this issue it is not all about Jesus. If it is hyperbolic, it jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10724017540080062026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22874063.post-1155733288719087882006-08-16T09:01:00.000-04:002006-08-16T09:01:00.000-04:00There's another problem with (2). It makes it out ...There's another problem with (2). It makes it out to be about the singer, as if Jesus died for other people only secondarily.<BR/><BR/>One issue to keep in mind is that the phrase form 'it's all about X' is usually hyperbolic. Suppose a pundit is discussing a particular policy, and someone says, "Well, it's all about the money." That doesn't usually mean that issues are irrelevant. It usually Jeremy Piercehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03441308872350317672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22874063.post-1155513792639146992006-08-13T20:03:00.000-04:002006-08-13T20:03:00.000-04:00Mindy,I am not saying that it is wrong to worship ...Mindy,<BR/>I am not saying that it is wrong to worship one member of the Trinity. It is great to worship and sing to Jesus. The problem I have with that song is that it says things to Jesus that blaspheme the other members of the Trinity. This I find problematic.jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10724017540080062026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22874063.post-1155258924533710552006-08-10T21:15:00.000-04:002006-08-10T21:15:00.000-04:00Humble though my opinion may be compared to such h...Humble though my opinion may be compared to such heavyweights I respectfully offer my two cents:<BR/>Worship is expressive by nature. Maybe Matt Redman, when writing "the heart of worship" was, in fact, singing it to Jesus. Maybe at that moment, he was reflecting on the work of the cross, or the redemption that came from it. Maybe it was written as worshipping the Son of God. Can we only worship Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22874063.post-1155142411422247942006-08-09T12:53:00.000-04:002006-08-09T12:53:00.000-04:00Jon, thanks for this post. I struggle with the pra...Jon, thanks for this post. I struggle with the praise and worship songs in my church. And, "I'm coming back to the heart of worship" is one of those, among others.<BR/><BR/>When these songs are sung, sometimes, I want to leave the Sanctuary, honestly. There is something deep within that rejects most of the songs, and the music that goes with them. I find myself standing, just holding my hands, Barbarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15762588867431355249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22874063.post-1155131915551166422006-08-09T09:58:00.000-04:002006-08-09T09:58:00.000-04:00I have read in the comments that "it's the thought...I have read in the comments that "it's the thought that counts". No, it's not the thought that counts, it's whether or not something is biblical.<BR/><BR/>This is one of those conversations that my hubbie and I have had OODLES of times. And I used to think that ...It's the thought that counts. His viewpoint is that many people learn their theology from the songs that they sing. and think Annettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07731853888897956775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22874063.post-1154811239658198362006-08-05T16:53:00.000-04:002006-08-05T16:53:00.000-04:00Cliff, I think you're right.Ben, I agree that ther...Cliff, I think you're right.<BR/><BR/>Ben, I agree that there is nothing wrong with most of what these songs state, and I doubt that their authors had any bad intentions. Nevertheless, their 'metaphors' or their sloppiness at certain points does concern me. <BR/><BR/>'The Heart of Woship' ceases to have any of these problems were the lyric to read "it's all about you Father, Son, and Spirit." jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10724017540080062026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22874063.post-1154784061508267872006-08-05T09:21:00.000-04:002006-08-05T09:21:00.000-04:00Jon,Let us strip away at some things here, despite...Jon,<BR/><BR/>Let us strip away at some things here, despite my attempts you seem unwilling to let go of the assertion that these songs are circumspect because you believe they teach false doctrine."Literally False" you exact words are. You want to focus on meaning and consequence but I wonder if this discussion had anything to do with these things. You contend that key lines from praise songs Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22874063.post-1154574152808113952006-08-02T23:02:00.000-04:002006-08-02T23:02:00.000-04:00Ben,My concern is both with the nature of the song...Ben,<BR/>My concern is both with the nature of the songs and the consequence in singing them.<BR/><BR/>If we continue to expand the parent analogy it would not be right to view the child's disconnection from the father as stemming from anything wrong the father has done. To make the analogy apt, the child would simply need to misunderstand what a family is and the nature of parental relations. jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10724017540080062026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22874063.post-1154545383011274682006-08-02T15:03:00.000-04:002006-08-02T15:03:00.000-04:00Jon,I think I might have misunderstood your qualms...Jon,<BR/><BR/>I think I might have misunderstood your qualms but since you have clarified them I still wonder what the nature of your concern is. I concede that your argument that these songs are questionable in their theology but are you more concerned with the nature of the songs themselves or the consequences to singing them? I take the conclusion that you are more concerned with consequences Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22874063.post-1154478611808187332006-08-01T20:30:00.000-04:002006-08-01T20:30:00.000-04:00Ben,I think you have misunderstood my qualms [perh...Ben,<BR/>I think you have misunderstood my qualms [perhaps since I was trying hard not to make the post too long and sacrificed clarity]. My issue is not that such songs focus solely on Jesus and ignore the other members of the Trinity, but rather that they flat out declare something that is false, something blasphemous. I think you raise another interesting issue - one that may also be jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10724017540080062026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22874063.post-1154464779163122942006-08-01T16:39:00.000-04:002006-08-01T16:39:00.000-04:00Jon,Thank you first for writing this intriguing qu...Jon,<BR/><BR/>Thank you first for writing this intriguing question. Thinking on this topic I began to wonder if it is a question that we, as Christians, need to burden ourselves with. My answer to this is a resounding no. Let me paraphrase what I believe you are asking us to think about, “Are these songs we sing a form of worship as they focus not on the Triune divinity of God but instead merelyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22874063.post-1154391768675000612006-07-31T20:22:00.000-04:002006-07-31T20:22:00.000-04:00Jon,I too have struggled with this issue. I think...Jon,<BR/>I too have struggled with this issue. I think that there's even more grevious theological blunders in some modern praise songs. It makes me happy to remember that just yesterday our church ended the great hymm with "God in three persons,Blessed Trinity" <BR/>I would not go so far as to say that praise songs are evil but I do feel that the general trend to empathize our emotions in theAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com